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Marriage in the Church of Jesus Christ -LDS (Mormonism).

October 13, 2016

*This looked interesting, especially after my visit to Utah this last week. Btw, I loved my trip, which was both for a funeral, and a bit of a vacation. And it is no secret that I actually like and am friends with some Mormon people!  (I knew several Mormons -and lost a few- when I was attached to Marine Force Recon and MACVSOG in the Nam, 1968).

I loved the Cedar City and Brian Head area, just beautiful!

  1. And I will quite admit (to my mind at least), and to a specific degree, that a Mormon who trusts Jesus Christ as Savior in Christ’s Death & Atonement, can be saved! I know a few who believe the Death & Atonement of Christ is their salvation. Yes, their doctrine of both Christ and the Triune God is flawed to say the least, but they do (these few at least) seem to see Jesus as Savior! (Note the depth of Romans 10: 9-13, and there is no perfection in how we call out to the Lord! Jesus is the Savior of Sinners!)

  2. Btw Greg, if your out there? Give us your best mind here, what say you?

  3. And I surely believe that God In Christ does have some “elect” who have never graced a church building or a denominational church! I base this on the depth of both God’s Grace & Love for the Sinner! And I am of course quite a believer in the Visible Church myself, but it is always a sinful church and people!

    • But certainly NO ONE is saved a wit by Mormonism, in and of itself!

      • Fr. Robert,

        I made your same general arguments (and also concessions) on Truth Behind Reality. Yes, doctrine matters – it certainly does, as does any solid foundation. But when we get right to the bare essence of salvation, Christ knocks on our heart’s door and we either accept or reject his presence inside – regardless of religious rote or proper syntax.

        Jesus is a living being – God the Son – not a linguistic construct that, unless evoked with this or that specific word-set, refuses to give us eternal life. Our heart knows when we have met Jesus, and so does our spirit and soul. If we accept him inside we live forever. If we reject him ultimately, we are lost to the Lake of Fire for all eternity. And we can choose either path without ever uttering a word.

      • @Todd: Yes, I remember reading your piece. “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.” (Ps. 51: 17) And yet even in the depth of this mystery I will always maintain that GOD alone In Christ saves the sinner! God alone can make and give regeneration and life! So some aspect of God’s revelation really does matter in human salvation. WE OURSELVES ALONE never make the decision for God … “God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this, it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.” (Eph. 2: 6-10, NLT)

        But I believe we will all be surprised who is and is not in Heaven! And of course the biggest mystery is that we ourselves (the saved, any saved) will be there! 🙂 Indeed, All Of Grace!

        Btw, I am still for a real and profound “epistemology”: to knowledge and to understand, i.e. believe (the etymology of the word). Thus I am quite for a biblical and always reformed scholasticism! And finally, salvation begins visibly on earth in forgiveness, renewal, the bestowal of the Holy Spirit, enlightenment, guidance, strengthening, comfort, but is only perfected in the blessedness and glory, in which body and soul share, of life everlasting Risen ‘In Christ’!

      • Btw Todd, note that I take a “Voluntarist” philosophical, rational position with epistemology:

        Voluntarism. “The medieval doctrine that the divine will takes precedence over the divine intellect. A voluntarist approach to human merit argues that God determines, by an act of will, what the meritorious value of a given human action will be. The intrinsic moral value of this action is argued to be irrelevant; it is what God wills the action to be worth that is of central importance. This approach is to be contrasted with intellectualism, which gave the priority to the divine intellect. Calvin, in common with most of his generation, tended towards voluntarism.” (Taken from, A Life of John Calvin, by Alister McGrath, page 277 -Blackwell Pub.)

        Indeed we can never escape God’s World View and Revelation! Noting Romans chapters 1-2 and 3.

      • Hang in there with me, the ride does get deep, but I hope rich in God’s Word & Revelation! I believe GOD wants thinking, but faithful Christians! 🙂

      • And btw Todd too, Mormonism is truly an American religion, with a real historical face of some white or Caucasian people. And with a place for the American Indian! But, it surely is based on myth to say the least. But, generally I love Utah and the Mormons! We might even retire there fully in Cedar City, who knows? We are really thinking about it! And I just like their ethos also. And the Mormons have always had men who served in the military! And generally too, they support National Israel. But, I am concerned myself about both modernity & postmodernity in Mormonism also! The 20-30 generation is under siege for sure, and even affects the older ones to some degree. Sign of the Times!

      • And there is NO way I could become a Mormon, but I do like the people, and their general ethic! Again, a good place to retire I think.

      • Just another note, but we counted over 17 different Christian Church’s in Cedar, not counting of course the LDS.

        And yes, I spoke (one of several) at an LDS funeral for an old Nam Vet friend of mine, of course without my collar! He was a good ole boy, a real friend, RIP!

  4. I completely agree with your comment here Fr. Robert. We are on the same page.

    • Thanks Todd: We have both simply but profoundly been ‘Captured by the Crucified One’: “Christ Jesus”, as Paul loves to say. But captured by His grace & glory forever! “I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” (Galatians 2: 20, ESV.) This verse by Paul has to be a High-Water mark for all Gentile and Pauline Christians, by Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles, Romans 11: 13. Who is himself always a Jew also, but surely a fulfilled one ‘In Christ’! Hallelujah/Alleluia! 🙂

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